http://www.bibles.net/ Picture of Wycliffe New Testament by courtesy of weblink shown.This is the passage of scripture you have brought up;
COL 1: 25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; 26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
This is what you have written as the answer to what the term “revelation of the mystery” means.
“ill tell you what i believe 25 and v 26 of ist colossians is saying paul was shown the revelation of the mystery the church the body of christ which was hidden in God from ALL generations but was first shown to paul.”
Unfortunately the 2 verses you mention Col 1:25+26 do not mention anything “About the church the body of Christ”.
Nor does it mention anything being “HIDDEN IN GOD”.
Nor do the verses mention ALL generations.
Nor do the verses mention anything being FIRST SHOWN TO PAUL.
PAUL`S MESSAGE
Paul declares he bore witness to the the same truths Moses and the prophets spoke of; did Moses and the prophets know of “the mystery?”
Acts 26:22+23 22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.
Paul preached what Christ preached; “my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ” are the same.
Romans 16:25-27 25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: 27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen
Scripture states Paul was; separted unto the" Gospel of God" Roms 1. This is the same gospel he refers to as "my gospel" in Roms 16:25
This is what you have written as the answer to what the term “revelation of the mystery” means.
“ill tell you what i believe 25 and v 26 of ist colossians is saying paul was shown the revelation of the mystery the church the body of christ which was hidden in God from ALL generations but was first shown to paul.”
Unfortunately the 2 verses you mention Col 1:25+26 do not mention anything “About the church the body of Christ”.
Nor does it mention anything being “HIDDEN IN GOD”.
Nor do the verses mention ALL generations.
Nor do the verses mention anything being FIRST SHOWN TO PAUL.
PAUL`S MESSAGE
Paul declares he bore witness to the the same truths Moses and the prophets spoke of; did Moses and the prophets know of “the mystery?”
Acts 26:22+23 22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.
Paul preached what Christ preached; “my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ” are the same.
Romans 16:25-27 25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: 27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen
Scripture states Paul was; separted unto the" Gospel of God" Roms 1. This is the same gospel he refers to as "my gospel" in Roms 16:25
Romans 1:1-4 King James Version
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
PAUL`S MINISTRY
Epraphras is declared by Paul to be "a faithful minister of Christ", the Colossians had heard the truth from him, was Paul a different minister than Epaphras?
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
PAUL`S MINISTRY
Epraphras is declared by Paul to be "a faithful minister of Christ", the Colossians had heard the truth from him, was Paul a different minister than Epaphras?
Col 1:1-7 1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,
2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
7 As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ;
PAUL`S (supposed) MYSTERY
2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
7 As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ;
PAUL`S (supposed) MYSTERY
The body of Christ existed before Paul was converted.
The fact that believers were “added to the church” (Acts 2:47), and also “added to the Lord” (Acts 5:14) before Paul’s conversion, indicate that the body existed prior to Paul.
[Stam does NOT comment on Acts 5:14 in his commentary,[16] nor does Sadler in his booklet The Historical Beginning of the Church!]
Additionally, 1 Cor. 12:13 proves that Paul was preaching the mystery of the body before Acts 18!
Other verses that prove conclusively that the body of Christ was present before Paul are listed below:
Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: . . .
Romans 16:7 King James Version 7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
"Who also were in Christ before me." Andronicus and Junia, were they in Christ but in darkness concerning the mystery?
The fact that believers were “added to the church” (Acts 2:47), and also “added to the Lord” (Acts 5:14) before Paul’s conversion, indicate that the body existed prior to Paul.
[Stam does NOT comment on Acts 5:14 in his commentary,[16] nor does Sadler in his booklet The Historical Beginning of the Church!]
Additionally, 1 Cor. 12:13 proves that Paul was preaching the mystery of the body before Acts 18!
Other verses that prove conclusively that the body of Christ was present before Paul are listed below:
Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: . . .
Romans 16:7 King James Version 7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
"Who also were in Christ before me." Andronicus and Junia, were they in Christ but in darkness concerning the mystery?
Romans 16:7 is so clear that hyper-dispensationalists must make a difference between being “in Christ,” and “in the body of Christ.”
Joel Finck writes in The Berean Searchlight: “Being ‘in Christ’ is not necessarily the same as being ‘in the body’ of Christ.”[17]
This is a grave inaccuracy. Paul said that the Corinthians were “in Christ” (1 Cor. 1:30) and also that they were “the body of Christ.” (1 Cor 12:27).
Joel Finck writes in The Berean Searchlight: “Being ‘in Christ’ is not necessarily the same as being ‘in the body’ of Christ.”[17]
This is a grave inaccuracy. Paul said that the Corinthians were “in Christ” (1 Cor. 1:30) and also that they were “the body of Christ.” (1 Cor 12:27).
The body began before Paul; Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the emnity thereby;
1Peter 1:18-21
18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
The term “mystery” is better understood as hidden truth, which a Sovereign God graciously reveals to his saints, not something which has never been revealed to anyone.
HOW DO CHRISTIANS IN N. IRELAND CONTINUE TO PROP UP A TERROCRATIC REGIME AT STORMONT MONASTERY ? NOW THAT IS WHAT I CALL A REAL MYSTERY!!
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
The term “mystery” is better understood as hidden truth, which a Sovereign God graciously reveals to his saints, not something which has never been revealed to anyone.
HOW DO CHRISTIANS IN N. IRELAND CONTINUE TO PROP UP A TERROCRATIC REGIME AT STORMONT MONASTERY ? NOW THAT IS WHAT I CALL A REAL MYSTERY!!
Some of the references used here are listed below, please do not take that as an endorsement of everything on these sites.
6 comments:
Sam i see you took the old post off with no reply to my post WELL ILL TRY AGAIN Sam i agreed with you that Colossians chapter one didnt say hid from all ages and generations but other scripture says it was. so i put all ,ref ephesians ch 3 verses 1 to 5 also Romans ch 16 verses 25 to 27 we must read scripture with scripture and it All FITS IN Sam it was hidden YOU MUST AGREE WITH THESE LAST VERSES. IN Answer to your hyper dispensationalism keep it on your site and youll get many comments from so called Dispensationalisms lol paul must have been hyper He taught it. heres your answer Sam. 1. Dispensational Theology distinguishes between Israel and the Church
The scriptures repeatedly refer to the apostle Paul as "the apostle of the Gentiles" (Ro.11:13), "the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles" (Ro.15:16), "the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles" (Eph. 3:1), etc. And Paul alone refers to this present time period in which we live as the dispensation of the grace of God (Eph.3:2).
In addition, Paul also states that a dispensation of the gospel was committed unto him, in 1Cor.9:17-18 -
17: For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
18: What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
And indeed, a dispensation is basically the same thing as an administration. For example, a Presidential administration might also be thought of as being a Presidential dispensation. So, in this present dispensation of grace, salvation is now being dispensed (or administered) to Uncircumcised Gentiles by grace through faith alone (see Eph. 2:8-9).
But until God revealed this mystery to Paul, this dispensation of grace in which we live had never been the subject of prophecy. Instead, Paul states that this present dispensation was not previously "made known" (revealed) unto the sons of men, in Eph. 3:1-6 -
1: For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2: If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4: Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5: Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6: That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
This fact cannot be emphasized enough. It is important to understand that because Uncircumcised Gentiles can now be saved, the dispensation of grace in which we now live could never have been the subject of prophecy, because the uncircumcised had no hope in the previous dispensations (see Gen. 17:14; Ex. 12:48; Ezek. 44:7-9). That is why verse 3 above states that that this dispensation was previously a "mystery".
Paul again states that the dispensation of God which was given to him had been a mystery hidden from ages and from generations, in Col. 1:25-27 -
25: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26: Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
So, Col. 1:25-27 and Eph. 3:2 both prove that this present dispensation was given to Paul, after having previously been a hidden mystery (again, it was never foretold in prophecy). And as we shall see, numerous other passages also show that Paul alone had a unique ministry as the apostle of the Gentiles. Sam i hope you Comment on the verses i posted hidden and kept secret since the world began Paperman
YOUR DEFINITION
It does take me some time to gather the thoughts you express into a coherent number of points. The response to your comments have been divided into 3 parts. 1. YOUR DEFINITION, 2. YOUR DISPENSATION, 3. YOUR DISREGARD. They will be posted as they are available.
You define Dispensationalism as “a Theology which distinguishes between Israel and the Church”. Many seem to agree with you.
I would define Dispensationalism as “An Arminian Trojan horse used to dupe the undiscerning”
This is the best definintion of the “Ekklesia” that I am aware of at the minute.
I. The catholic or universal Church, which is invisible, consists of the whole number of the elect, that have been, are, or shall be gathered into one, under Christ the Head thereof; and is the spouse, the body, the fulness of Him that fills all in all.[1]
EPH 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him.
Eph1:22+23 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
EPH 5:23-27 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
EPH 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
COL 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Which church was scripture speaking about when Stephen spoke Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers; who received the lively oracles to give unto us; Why is the word “church “ used by the translators to convey the meaning.
YOUR DISPENSATION
I am quoting your words---“And Paul alone refers to this present time period in which we live as the dispensation of the grace of God” (Eph.3:2)."
Eph 3:2 does not refer to a “time period”
Again, your words---“So, in this present dispensation of grace, salvation is now being dispensed (or administered) to Uncircumcised Gentiles by grace through faith alone (see Eph. 2:8-9)”.
The following are a number of scriptures relating to what is known as "saving faith".
Romans 1:16+17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH. j
Heb10:38 Now THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH:
“The just” I wonder who the”just” can be, perhaps they are different from those individuals the scriptures describe as “saints”.
Mtt 1:19; Luke 2:25; Luke 14:14.
Habbuk 2:4 BUT THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY HIS FAITH. This is the first mention of the just living by faith, what dispensation was this? Whom did they put their faith in? The most interesting aspect of “their faith” how did they receive it ?
Heb 11:1—7 did they comes to saving faith becasue their circumcision? As far as I know the individuals mentioned in the passage were not part of the nation of Israel.
Taken from your comments;
“Paul states that this present dispensation was not previously "made known" (revealed) unto the sons of men, in Eph. 3:1-6 –“
EPH3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, AS it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Not made known, note the word "AS" it is now revealed…., I am afraid you do not understand English, it does not say it was never known, it is saying it was not known the way it is now!
Rather like saying, George Best was not known in the year 1958 AS he is now.
YOUR DISREGARD
Cutting and pasting is not a very good idea unless you read and understand to the best of your ability what you are cutting and pasting!
Your very own RASH words;
“But until God revealed this mystery to Paul, this dispensation of grace in which we live HAD NEVER BEEN THE SUBJECT OF PROPHECY. Instead, Paul states that this present dispensation was not previously "made known" (revealed) unto the sons of men, in Eph. 3:1-6
THREE TIMES you claim this was not foretold in prophecy, you Better read what the Holy Spirit said through Paul`s writings again,in Romans 15:9 he is quoting from Isaiah 11:10.
ROM 15:9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. 10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. 11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.
12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
I have always regarded this as a prophecy of salvation to individuals of all the nations, must have got it wrong.
Gen 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed wee the romises made. He saith not,And to seeds,as of many, but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
“All the nations of the earth”,must include the Gentile nations I would have thought!
Hid,Hidden,Not Known, A Mystery;
2 Cor4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
Be it known therefore unto you, that THE SALVATION OF GOD IS SENT UNTO THE GENTILES, and that they will hear it" (Acts 28:28).
Therefore Paul says, by inspiration:
"I SPEAK TO YOU GENTILES, INASMUCH AS I AM THE APOSTLE OF THE Thus, while Israel and the prophetic program are temporarily set aside, the church is made up predominantly of Gentiles in the flesh, with Paul as their apostle.
GENTILES, I MAGNIFY MINE OFFICE" (Rom. 11:13).
This is why the apostle speaks of "this mystery among the Gentiles" (Col. 1:27) and explains to the Gentile believers of this day:
For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of THIS MYSTERY, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; THAT BLINDNESS IN PART IS HAPPENED TO ISRAEL, UNTIL THE FULNESS OF THE GENTILES BE COME IN" (Rom. 11:25 i wonder what they were blinded from oh i thought they knew. well id rather believe whats written would you Not. Be it known therefore unto you, that THE SALVATION OF GOD IS SENT UNTO THE GENTILES, and that they will hear it" (Acts 28:28 I Thank God I Heard It And Believed It And Was Saved NoT By Peters Kingdom Gospel But the Gospel Which Paul Called My Gospel KEPT SECRET SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN" (Rom. 16:2.5). FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD HID IN GOD" (Eph. 3:9) Oh By The WaY Sam I Always Read WhAT i Post To You I wouldnt LIKE To Send You Israels Mail for I understand English Very Well as a matter of fact i always did well in my English at School BUT FOREIGN LANGO Lol Sorry ThATS Bad English. well The Foreign stuff was Sign Gifts Unto The Unbelieving JEW Not the Church Age Israel The Great Commision All Scripture Is To Us But Not For US Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth 2nd Tim 2v15 Paperman
Sam I Understood This. one of your older posts to someone. Good for someone who dont understand English Or maybe its Ulster Scots LOL Can reed rite and cownt do not need any mor education than that paperman Dont let the paper selling fool you lol Paperman
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